Hi. I'm Michael Dyrynda.

And I'm Jake Bennett.

And welcome to Episode 177 of the North
Meet South Web Podcast. [upbeat music]

-Nailed it. Got it. Nice work. All right.
-Perfection.

From now on, we have it. Is it, is that on
Riverside, or are you playing that

-through your special controller?
-No. Yeah. No. That's coming through the,

the RODECaster.

-Okay. Yep.
-Yep. So it's all-

-So glad you're using that
-... all one channel for you. [laughs]

It is. It sounds great. Yeah. I'm loving
it.

-Excellent. Excellent.
-It sounds really nice. Nice job.

Hey, um,

boy, I've got a lot of stuff written down
to talk about. Before our show-

-You do
-... started, I was like, "Oh, man, what

are we gonna talk about?" And then I had a
bunch of things to talk about. I think

this little power nap helped me out. I
was, uh...

Dude, it has been a busy last couple days,
and so-

-Mm-hmm
-... my son was like, "Dad, will you sit

with me?" 'Cause he really likes it when I
sit with him, and I have not been able to

sit with him the last couple nights. And
so tonight, I was like, "Yeah. I'll sit

with you for a few minutes."

Immediately fell asleep. Just lights out,
man. Lights out. And so I woke up, and it

was like 10:03, and I'm like, "Oh, man. We
gotta, we gotta get the podcast in here,"

-so...
-Yeah. Yeah. That was-

-Anyway
-... that's the same with, with me and Eli.

Like, I, I will do his bedtime every
night, so I read and I sing, and then-

-Mm-hmm
-... after that, you know, lately, he's

like, "Dad, stay with me for a bit." So I
will stay until Ray comes in 'cause he'll

put Liv down and, yeah, it's just between
when I finish singing and when Ray comes

in, I don't know what happens, but I'm
usually being jabbed in the leg to wake

-up. [laughs]
-[laughs]

That's hilarious. Yeah, man. I mean, you
know, it's like, hey, could be worse. I'm,

I'm thankful that he still wants to sit
with me, so it's like, you know, some

-nights-
-Yeah

... it's like, oh, like, do I have to do
this? And it's like-

-Mm-hmm
-... but then I'm remembering, like, yeah,

this is not the case for any of my kids
anymore. Nobody's asking me to sit with

them, so I'm just gonna enjoy it and take
it, you know-

-Mm-hmm
-... take it where I can get it, sort of

-deal. So, anyway. Yeah. It's good.
-Sure.

It's good.

Well, um, let's jump in real quick to
Liquid Glass. Have you seen Apple's new

design thing that they've come out with?
Have you seen this?

I don't know. Look, the reason, the reason
I own an iPhone is because Apple is,

like, a multi-trillion dollar company with
all of these designers-

-Yep, yep
-... and I just want them to design me the

interface, and then that's the interface.
I don't wanna customize it. I don't want a

-widget.
-Yeah.

-I don't want different size icons.
-Okay, okay.

I don't want different col-... Like, I...
You design it, and I'll use it. And if I

-don't like it, like-
-Mm-hmm.

And this is the thing. "Oh, why can't we
customize our phones?" You, you totally

can. Go and customize your Android. Leave
the iPhone alone.

Absolutely.

-Dude, I-
-I didn't get-

-You know what?
-I didn't get the iPhone-

-I can-
-... because it was customizable. I got it

-because-
-I can-

... it looked good as it was.

I can appreciate that perspective,
actually. I really can. And it's, um...

You know, you sound like my dad

back when I was growing up [laughs] and we
had a Windows XP computer, and anytime I

would change anything, he would get
somebody to say, "Do not change the

-wallpaper."
-Yeah.

-Do not-
-Yeah

-... change the cursor.
-Yeah.

-Do not change the icons.
-[laughs]

Just leave it the same, and we've arrived-

-Just leave it
-... at that point.

-Yeah.
-We've arrived at that point as, as, uh,

you know,

senior gentlemen that we are like, "You
know what? I just like my iPhone as it

-is." I don't- I don't need the dark mode-
-Yeah

... the icons. I don't need the large
icons with no text, although I have both

of those turned on. Don't need them. Uh,
you know? [laughs] I don't need them.

-Yeah.
-Uh, so no. I c- I can get that

perspective. I, I will say, though, like,
it's, um... No, no. It looks cool. Some of

the stuff they have looks cool. I, I do
actually wonder,

um, with some of it, if... But, which by
the way, folks, if you haven't gotten the

chance to look at it, this is, like, a new
design aesthetic that they're sort of

carrying across all of their different
products. So from the TV to your MacBook

-to your iPad-
-Mm-hmm

... to your phone to your watch, they're
implementing this new design aesthetic, I

guess is what I can call it. Um, Liquid
Glass is the idea, and they're wanting to

focus more on content. And so they want
the controls to sort of get out of the

-way, as it were-
-Mm-hmm

... and

to that end, they've made the controls

more transparent, I suppose. The,

uh, you know, at the bottom of your apps,
normally you'll have a bar, like, an

action bar that you can do things on, and
what they've done is they've decided to

make those contextual, almost. So you can
think of, like, Dynamic Island at the top,

-how it sort of changes-
-Mm-hmm

... based on what live activities you have
going on and things like that. Well,

that, that section at the bottom sorta
changes contextually based on where you're

at in the app. If you're scrolling and
you're at the bottom, it's gonna be

different than if you're coming back up to
the top and it's, and it's whatever. And,

and then, and then it's transparent. It's
not, like, a hard-

-Yeah
-... line color. It's-

-No, it's frosted-
-... it's a-

-Frosted glass, basically.
-Frosted glass. Sure. Yep.

-Yeah.
-And some of the effects that they have

moving between things is really
interesting, so I don't know. It's okay.

I, I'm wondering, like,
accessibility-wise, the contrast didn't

seem that high. It seemed like for people
who need higher contrast, even for just

normal people who don't need higher
contrast-

-Yeah
-... it seemed awfully close. Um, so

anyway, I don't know. We'll see. I, I
always love to kinda play with the new,

the new designs and, and take a look at
those, but...

I don't know. Whatever, whatever it looks
like outta the box is, is exactly how I'm

gonna leave it. I'm definitely not going
to customize my message background, so I,

I can look at the icon and I know who I'm
talking to. I don't need a

wacky-colored background. I don't need any
of this stuff. Like, the frosted glass is

nice in things, like, in application
where it's, like, the music app and the

controls are... Yeah. Okay, that's fine,
'cause it allows them to present the

cover art more, but

it's not [laughs]... Like, you're not
showing more of the, the background of the

home screen because you've got all of
these frosted glass elements because it's

-all, it's all blurred anyway, so...
-Yeah.

-I don't know. It's-
-Yeah.

Whatever. Like, I get it. But whatever the
default is, however the icons look when I

install iOS 26 now, 'cause they've
decided to t-... number of these things

based on the year that they- they're
released ahead of, rather than, you know-

-Ah, interesting. Okay
-... sequential numbers. So, obviously,

-this will come out in September.
-Kind of like with, like, vehicles.

-Because it comes out in September.
-Yeah.

Yeah, like cars. You know, it's coming out
in September. There's no point in calling

it iOS 25 because 25 is almost over, so
we'll... You know, this is-

-Right
-... iOS 26. Which I- I get that. Whatever.

Totally fine. Um, but, yeah. However it
looks out of the box is exactly how I'm

gonna leave it. I'm not gonna change it.
I'm not gonna look for any... Like, I s-

I've created one Genmoji. I'm go- okay,
that was fun.

-I know.
-So...

-I'm with you on that. Like-
-I think-

-... I've created a couple, but not many
-...

I think the... I think the interesting
perspective is that I, I... And I didn't

see that because this happened at 3:00 AM,
so I haven't... Whatever has crossed my

-timeline in-
-Sure

... in Twitter is all I've seen. But, um,

I think the, the interesting perspective
is that they, like, they just didn't talk

-about Siri or Apple Intelligence at all.
-Mm-hmm.

And, you know, everyone's obviously,

um, the sky is falling at Apple, they're
so far behind on AI, they can't... You

know, it's like... I don't know.

They don't have to talk about it.

They haven't delivered on the stuff that
they promised last year, really, so why

would they bring that up? I d- I also
don't think... Like, they're sticking

their heads in the sand a little bit as
well, so.

Yeah.

But who knows? Like, it's a, it's a
multi-trillion dollar company. Clearly,

AIs... And I don't know how much of it is
tech bubble stuff. You know, we're

obviously on the bleeding edge of AI, um,
as developers and people that are using

this stuff. I don't know... Like, I don't
talk to anyone

outside of tech, really, that

even acknowledges AI as a thing. You know,
it's not... I get that there are

productivity gains and there are things to
be said for, for that. Like,

there are certainly

consumer-focused applications of AI that,
that are out there. Um,

but I think a lot of it... You know,
OpenAI, all of this chat, ChatGPT stuff,

all of the, like, Claude and Cursor, these
are all developer-focused tools.

Yeah.

Um, I feel like AI from a consumer
perspective is kind of being rammed down

people's throats. You know, you go to
Google and it's no longer Google search

results, it's Gemini, you know, the AI
stuff at the top of, of the-

-Yeah
-... Google search results. So, like,

people are not seeking this out. It's
Google saying here's... This is how we're

gonna deliver search results to you now.
So, I don't,

I don't know.

Like, yes, there are certainly
applications of it that people would find

useful. I just don't know

how broad that is.

Well, I feel like, I feel like the
applications that they would find useful

have been integrated. So, you know, this
is, like-

-Mm-hmm
-... sort of Apple's thing, where it's like

when near field communication stuff, like
NFC stuff first came out, Android, all the

phones were like, "Oh, now shipping with
NFC." And it was like, "What are we

supposed to do with this?" Like, you c-
it's-

-Yeah
-... it's a useful sort of, like, uh,

headline, I suppose, but there was nothing
actually useful that you could do with

-it, right? It was like-
-Yeah. Yeah, yeah

... okay, get a tag, and, like, if- when
you walk in your home, you can, you know,

tap your phone to that tag and it will
activate smart home things. Or it's like,

or you could just talk to your Siri or
whatever. And it's just-

-Yeah. Yeah
-... I don't know. It wa- it just... It

-seemed gimmicky, right? Um-
-Mm-hmm

... and so Apple doesn't ever seem really
satisfied to just take the technology at

face value and just push it out there,
like a very unrefined, raw version of it.

-Mm-hmm.
-Instead, they integrate it into a product,

like Genmoji or like some of the
Playground stuff that they've done, where

you can take photos and use them as
reference images and sort of add on

-additional things.
-Mm-hmm.

They- they've done that, so they've,
they've-

-Yeah
-... pulled that in. They've made it

consumer-facing. They've done things where

you can highlight the text and have, um,
have it rewrite it for you. "Hey, I want

this to sound more professional. Hey, I
want this to sound more..." whatever. You,

you can do all that stuff. So, the, the
practical applications of it, I think have

been delivered on. I don't, I don't
really know that there's a whole lot else.

Um, but I will say, too, that, you know,
it's not like they're disa- disallowing,

-like, ChatGPT from your phone.
-Yeah.

Like, I have that on my phone. And, also,
if I tell it to ask ChatGPT, it will. So

-they'll-
-Yeah

-... they have, like, a first party-
-Yeah

... you know, I don't know if it's first
party, but they have an integration with

it, so it's like if I want that type of
answer-

-Yeah
-... I can just have it ask it. And so-

-You can connect to your account.
-I don't know, like-

-You can do all that kinda stuff, um, so.
-Totally. I'm not so worried about it.

-Like, I feel-
-Yeah

... like I can get everything that I need
to get without a whole bunch-

-Mm-hmm
-... of messing around. I, I think it's...

Yeah, it's pretty good. So, I, I'm not too
worried a- I'm not worried about that at

all.

-Um...
-Yeah, I think when the time comes... And

th- there was, like, a research paper that
came out

over the weekend, I think, or end of last
week, from some researchers at Apple that

basically said what we have now is peak
AI. And, like, the, the approach is

fundamentally flawed. Like, not, not
flawed.

It is fun- th- there is a ceiling that
you, we just-

-Mm-hmm
-... won't get past with the approach that

we're taking now, because it's just
mimicry and, like, guessing based on what

it already knows. It's not,

um...

You know, it's not able to infer stuff or
create stuff or do stuff from scratch. You

know, if we, if

AGI is the goal, for better or worse, then
the way that

all of the known or all of the current
stuff that is public, um, is being done is

not gonna get, get us there. So, like,
who's to say that Apple is not working on

whatever the next thing is? You know, when
the iPhone-

-Yeah
-... first launched,

Google was making the next BlackBerry.
They were, they were not even thinking.

Now, you know, it might be OpenAI or it
might be whoever else that comes up with

whatever the next thing is. You know, it
might not be Apple.

Um, you know, Apple has always been, like,
a hardware company that, that tied all of

the hardware together with software.

I think that

whatever the next evolution is, you know,
maybe Apple is working on that, maybe

Google is working on that, you know, all
of this stuff that's happening.

I think

c- for consumers, you know, everyone was
looking... Like I said, Google was making

the next BlackBerry, and they were 12
months behind the ball when Apple came out

with, like, this piece of glass-You know,
this single pane of glass on the-

on the iPhone, you know? It was like, "Oh,
we've been thinking about this all wrong

because we've been thinking about how do
we improve what we have, not what do

-people want next," kind of thing, so.
-Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, it's like,

you know, Apple doesn't ever seem to be
the pioneer in the parti- particular

technology. They seem to be like the
perfecters-

-Very rarely
-... of it though.

-Yeah.
-Yeah, yeah. It's like, um... You know,

just, so I mean, we were talking about
NFC, right? But there's- there's a lot of

-other-
-Yeah, NFC. Yeah

... things like that where it's like, you
know, contactless payments. Well,

everybody had it, but nobody actually
adopted it until Apple was like, "Nope,

we're gonna actually roll this thing out
properly, and now everybody's gonna have

it." And everybody has it now. And so, it,
um, you know, I- I don't think they

typically are the first ones to enter a
space. They really wanna make sure they

nail it when they do. So, I was reading an
article recently called,

I think it was something like AI and the
Horseless Carriage. And it was this idea

that when-

when they first came up with the
automobile,

they didn't call it the automobile. They
called it the horseless carriage because

all they had previous to that was
carriages with horses pulling them.

-Yeah.
-And so they were still in this mode of,

"Oh, it's a carriage. It's just a carriage
without a horse. It's a horseless

carriage." That was how it was advertised,
and you still had the person sitting on

-the outside of this thing.
-Yeah.

-Like, out on the front.
-Yeah.

Like, as if there would be a horse there
normally, so it's just like you had this

bizarre,

like...

They didn't know yet how to utilize the
technology. They just sort of took the

-horse away and that was it, right?
-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And we're seeing sort of the inverse of
that where it's like we've got these

applications that have existed for
forever, and now we're just sprinkling AI

-on top of everything.
-Yeah. [laughs]

And the idea was like, no, no, no. We need
a reinvention of these applications.

-Right.
-This is not email with AI on top. It's an

-AI-enabled... Like, it's AI first inbox.
-Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Like. every piece that comes in is going
to first be analyzed by, and then we're

going to use the intelligence to only
deliver-

-Yeah
-... to you the things that you need, and

we're going to draft a response for you
using a prompt that you provided that has

context about you and your life and your
tone of voice, right?

-Mm-hmm.
-That's what you need. That is the next

-generation application.
-Mm-hmm.

-It's not a horseless carriage.
-Yeah.

-It's an automobile, right?
-Yeah, yeah.

And so that's- that was kind of the idea
of the article, and I think that's...

Hopefully that's where Apple's headed, and
hopefully that's what they're thinking

about too, so.

I also think, interesting from a consumer
perspective, like us as, you know,

developers, engineers, whatever you wanna
call

our cohort of people, like yeah, we will
be early adopters for this stuff, but

we're also

generally in a position financially to pay
for this stuff. And, like, some people

are spending hundreds of dollars a month
on,

um, you know, licenses... Not licenses.
Subscriptions and tokens and-

-Yeah
-... what have you. Like, the average

consumer, especially, you know, with the
price of housing and the cost of living

and all of that kind of stuff, I don't...
You know, I assume it's fairly similar in

the US for large portions of the
population, but, like, in Australia,

people are not gonna be spending $200 a
month for, um, you know, GPT credits or

Cloud credits or whatever else because-
[laughs]

-Yeah
-... these- these are the... There's a

large percentage of the population that,
like, can't afford groceries week to week,

you know? So,

the economies of scale have to kick in
before any of that stuff is viable anyway,

-so.
-Yeah, and I mean, these things aren't free

-either. Like, these- these-
-No. Yeah, the compute, the-

... you know, these cycles they're
running-

-... electricity, all of this stuff.
-... it's not- it's not insignificant.

-Yeah, they're run-
-No.

You're a- you're running on VC bucks right
now. You know, everything is.

-Right. Yeah.
-Um, but it-

-Look, and look how much money, like-
-... can't s- be sustained forever.

Yeah, like, look how much money, um, Tesla
has put into building out, you know,

their compute clusters. Look how much
money OpenAI is spending, how much,

uh, money Microsoft is investing in Azure
and building all these data centers and

thing. Like,

-this is not infinitely scalable with-
-Right

... you know, current- current, um,
technology in terms of power production

and- and the power consumption. It's, you
know,

you know, there- there is a limit to- to
what can be done with the current

approach. And things are getting faster
and things are certainly getting more

economical, but I think there is still a
ceiling. We can't keep, you know, churning

through water and electricity and
whatever else to- to power all of these

things, so.

Yeah.

-Yeah.
-Interesting. Well, that didn't go the way

I was thinking it would, but it was still
a very interesting discussion anyway.

-Thank you-
-Yeah

... for the insights on that. I love that.

-That's all right.
-Um,

okay, so I have a couple items here. I- I-
I have a few things that I'm just wanting

to talk about as, like, a, "Do you think
this is interesting?" Or I thought they

-were interesting, maybe you will too.
-Mm-hmm.

And then I had a-

maybe a scenario to share and/or a
interesting

question for where you would store
particular values if you were wanting to

generate pages that were sort of static.
Where should we store that data?

-Mm-hmm.
-So I'll save that one towards the end.

But,

um, we've been working recently on our
website for our job application page.

Basically, like, who we are as a company,
and if you want to come work with us, what

our values are, what our culture is,

what jobs are available, et cetera, right?
Previous to the... Previous to this

iteration, it was just a job board.
Basically, here are the jobs we have

available. You like it or you don't, go
click and apply, right?

And now we've sort of morphed it into who
are we as a company? What are our values?

What is our culture? Where are we at? What
are our locations? How do you get here?

What do you expect in an interview? Just a
lot more content, right? And so,

to that end, we've got a new designer on
the team and he's killing it, doing a

great job, but it's basically pushed me
back into this, um,

this

role that I really enjoy but don't really
get a lot of time to spend, uh, on, which

is just designing things or coming up with
ideas for things that I think would be-

would be interesting. And- and so

I've been gathering some inspiration from
a couple places around, and one place that

I found that I thought was really, really
good, uh, is Kit.com.

So if you go to Kit.com/features, this is
what used to be ConvertKit, right? They

changed over to just Kit. So
Kit.com/features is really cool.And one of

the things that I really loved on their
page is their use of video. Now, you know,

video is not new at all. We've been using
video on the web for a long time.

However,

I feel like the video format that we
typically see on the web is quite static.

It's typically a 16 by 9 window, it's got
a big play button in it, and you play the

video or you don't, right? And most of the
time, you don't. I mean, like, unless

you're going to somebody's page to see
something,

you know, like that, like, that's
typically how videos are shown on, on web

pages these days is, is that, "Hey, it's a
video that we've put together for you to

view. It's a minute long," whatever. Click
then see. Eh, maybe, maybe not. Or you

might have, like, video backgrounds which
are pretty cool. There's some novel uses

of video, uh, where, like, you scroll the
page and it advances. You know, they're

using mp4s instead of, like, a GIF or
something like that and, sort of, because

they're more efficient, maybe they're
advancing as you scroll the page. Y- maybe

you've seen some of that. So tho- those
are kind of cool but, but whatever. The

thing I really like about what Kit has
done is instead of using that 16 by 9

format, they've done more like a square
format. So if I was to... You know, they

have, like, a employee testimonial on the
page, so it's a stripe across the page,

and on the left-hand side, they have, um,
like, a square or maybe a little bit

taller than wide. So maybe it's
rectangular, it's a little bit taller than

-that.
-Yeah, slightly.

But it's, it's where you would normally
see, like, an avatar, right? You'd see-

-Mm-hmm.
-You'd, you'd think like, okay, I have a, a

testimonial on the right, I'm gonna have,
like, a circle avatar or I'm gonna have,

like, some sort of, like, you know,
square-ish sort of avatar there. But it's

-not, it's a video.
-Yeah.

Which is really cool. And it's autoplaying
but with

no audio, right? And so what it does is it
just has, like, the first five, six

seconds of the video playing there for
you, sort of like what you would have if

you're on YouTube and you mouse over a
Short. It starts to play that first five,

six seconds of the clip, and then it
repeats. You know what I'm saying? And

-then if you wanna watch that-
-It kinda makes it a GIF that bounces

... if that piques your interest, yes,
then you can click on it. Um, and so what

it has is it has this really neat little
icon at the top, which is this black

circle that has audio and, you know, you
hover over it and it says, "Click for

-sound." You click it-
-Mm-hmm

... and it will begin to play. And then if
you click it again, it will pause it with

a big pause button, and if you click it
again, it'll play, right? So all these

sort of considerations that you'd make for
how do I expose the idea that this is a

playable thing to them without bi- putting
a big play button on it-

-Yeah
-... are available. It's moving, so it's,

like, intuitive, "Oh, this is a video I
can play. Very cool." Um, and then things

that are difficult

to

do with it on mobile are also considered.
So I was like, "This is a really great

pattern. I love this idea of using video
in a different format." It's, it's unique.

It's, um,

uh, it's, like, really tasteful. It's done
really well, and it's, it's, um, it, it

feels like the right place and the right
way to use it. However,

we tried to make something like this on
our own. It's near impossible

to come up with... You know, nobody has
embeds for this stuff other than, like, a

-16...
-Yeah.

You know, you're gonna use YouTube? Not
working. It's not gonna work. You're gonna

-use Vimeo? You can't do it.
-Mm-hmm.

Like, so you either have to roll your own,
which is a pain in the butt, because

using those different aspect ratios, where
are you gonna host it? Um, you know, then

you're gonna have to do your own video
tag. It's a pain in the neck. And then you

have to do the, the click-to-do, you have
to do the, uh, the autoplay.

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-It's a mess.

So what I found out is that kit.com uses
Wistia, which I had never heard of before,

but it is a video hosting platform

where they allow you to do all these
things. Uh, custom embed sizes, uh, this

au- you know, this click-to-play audio
thing that's, it's a thing. They, they,

-they just already have it.
-Yeah.

And then they also have, I think it's
called, like, Tesseract or something like

that. I can't remember exactly, but it's
essentially how they deliver the video to

con- to, to, um,

to devices, right? How, how they really
are...

-Yeah.
-They're insanely, uh, obsessed with

efficiently delivering these experiences
to users in a very, um, low bandwidth way.

And so they've got not only their first
version, they've got their second version

out, which was even faster. And so it's
something like 90% faster or something

than YouTube or Vimeo's embeds. Really
lightweight, really good stuff. And so

we've been using them. I was like, "Screw
it. Switch out all of our videos that even

use YouTube or Vimeo for embeds and put
this in there instead." I've been so

pleased. It is really good, and their
embeds are awesome. I pay, I think it's

like 12 bucks a month we're paying.
Totally worth it. And, um, just, just

super impressed. So huge shout-out to
kit.com because their stuff looks great,

and, um, I'd be lying if I didn't say
we're essentially just ripping off some of

-those ideas in some of our-
-[laughs]

... [laughs] in some of our testimonial
stuff. I'm like, "Why reinvent this? This

-looks so good, I'm gonna-"
-Yeah.

"... I'm gonna kinda go with this." Um,
but wistia.com has been really cool, so

-definitely check that out.
-Nice.

Um, if you're looking for something novel
like that, I just thought it was really

cool.

Hmm.

Very interesting. Yeah, it's always, uh,
interesting to look at these video

delivery tools,

platforms, whatever it is, um, and, like,

-fairly reasonably priced in terms of...
-Yeah, totally.

Um,

you know, the free plan is 200 gig of
bandwidth and,

um,

-what is it, 10, I guess, 10 files?
-Mm-hmm.

Is that, that what they're saying here?
So-

-Yep
-... you know, if you're just getting

started with something, you're probably
not gonna serve a great deal of content,

and I assume that they're doing all the
transcode and things like that as well, so

-they're delivering optimized media and-
-Being able to leverage media.

-Yeah. So-
-Everything.

-That's-
-Yep

... that's really cool. Professional
hosting.

-It is.
-No code replacement, video SEO, video

chaptering using AI. There you go. Video
creation. It's just, like, a whole heap of

different stuff. So if you're looking
for-

-Yep
-... for video stuff and you're, you're not

Aaron Francis and you don't wanna go out
and build your own thing that serves video

-off of Cloudflare-
-Yeah.

-Um-
-Yeah

... then yeah, maybe, maybe consider this.
So-

-Totally.
-There's, like,

the...

Having, having worked in this space a
while ago now, you know, all of this stuff

exists now that didn't really exist back
then, which is why we built a platform to,

to do it all. There's just so much
involved in terms of transcode and then

videos, and then devices become
problematic because, you know, if you

think you're testing on, like, your Chrome
device but you don't have access to all

of the different Android devices, and all
the different Android and Google devices

do things differently with t-Video
playback and autoplay. That does or

doesn't work and different, you know, bit
rates and things. It's just to, to have a

platform, like, if, especially if it's not
your focus, if your focus is just

delivering video content to the internet
for people to consume.

Um, and, and, like, if you wanna have some
control over it, obviously if you don't

care too much, you'd put it on YouTube or,
or whatever else and just link to YouTube

directly. But if you're wanting to
present stuff on your own website, then

yeah, something like this is, is great.
Even, even like their-

-Yeah
-... paid plan at $25 a month is, is pretty

reasonable. Um, and that allows you to
customize-

-Yeah. Exactly
-... the player as well. Clickable video

CTAs, which is, I, I assume is what you're
doing, so.

-Yeah. Yep. There's...
-[clears throat]

I mean, there's really, there's a whole
suite of things you can do, and if you get

into, like, their features, they, they've
got... I mean, even if you go to

wistia.com, they've also got really novel
uses of video throughout their whole site,

obviously, right? That's what they're
selling. And so, um, if you look through

their stuff, there's some really cool
things that you can do or that, you know,

that are just, like, sort of inspiration
things. I, I think for me, what it is too

is it's, I, I'm hoping to get something
that somebody's going to, it's gonna make

-them pause on the page.
-Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And

I think, you know, one of the things that
will hook my attention... Well, currently,

right now, like, a great way to hook my
attention is something that looks like a

-short, you know?
-Mm-hmm.

Everybody's pushing this concept. I think
we were just talking, I was just

listening, I think Aaron, Aaron and Ian
were just talking about this, how, like,

YouTube, you know, YouTube is pushing
shorts. Like, you know, when you go to

their Apple TV official app and, like,
shorts are at the very top.

-Yeah.
-Like, they, they've recognized, people

recognize that, whether it's TikTok,
whether it's Instagram-

-Mm-hmm
-... or whether it's Threads, whatever,

-right? The-
-Yeah, everyone wants a quick content clip

-of something
-Yeah. Correct. Nobody wants a minute and a

-half video. Nobody wants a-
-Yeah

... minute video. They just want something
quick. And sort of appealing to that same

aesthetic, giving a, like, a differently
shaped video that's autoplaying, hooking

into that, I think is a great way to sort
of utilize, um, or sort of hack the

attention of those users because that's
what they're used to already, right?

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-So, um, when reading an article not too

long ago about web patterns, they were
like, "Don't reinvent the wheel." Like,

look at what Amazon is doing. They've
spent millions of dollars in research to

-figure out the best way to do this. Just-
-Mm-hmm

... borrow what they're already doing,
right?

-Yeah.
-And so this is the same idea. Like,

they've, people have already figured this
out. This autoplay thing really captures

-people attention-
-Mm-hmm

... people's attention, and they already
know, they've already been trained to

click on the video if they wanna watch the
rest of it.

-Yeah.
-Utilize it. Hack that thing, right? Grab

-their attention that way.
-Yeah. Yeah, there, there are certain

things that, like, you look at these giant
companies and you shouldn't do. You know,

obviously you don't need,

you don't need Amazon scale infrastructure
for your 50 view a month [laughs] blog or

-anything like that. But in terms of-
-Right

... this kind of stuff where they've,
they've invested

tons of time and money to, to figure out
what people are actually clicking on,

because what they want is for people to
click on stuff.

-Yeah.
-Then, you know, those are the kinds of

things that you can leverage. I will say
that, like, I hate seeing YouTube shorts

on my TV 'cause if I'm opening my TV,
like, I wanna watch something on the big

-screen. I don't wanna watch [laughs]-
-Yeah

-... vertical resolution short-
-Yeah, totally

-... on, on my TV, so.
-Yeah.

But, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's
definitely, um, interesting. I like, I

like those little testimonial type things.
I should, uh-

-Mm-hmm
-... use that-

-Mm-hmm
-... for something in the future.

Um,

maybe for Laracon.

-Maybe for Laracon, yeah. I wanna-
-Do you wanna talk, do you wanna talk about

Laracon real quick before I, before I
jump into-

We can talk, we can talk about other
Laracons

-... either of my other two, uh-
-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-... topics? Yeah. All right.
-Well, where-

-Let's just do that.
-You and I-

I'm gonna grab my water bo- I'm gonna
refill my water bottle while you do that.

Water bottle. Yeah, yeah. That's fine. So
you, you and I-

-While this thing is going.
-As, as part of Laravel New- Like, last

year you, you did with David Hemphill,
like, a bit of a,

a recap of day one. So I think you and I
we're gonna try and do a day one, day two

recap as a, as a "official Laravel News"
thing. But then I think we're also gonna

look at wandering around and doing some
vox pops, which, you know, is a Latin

thing that I forget the full version of
it. It's basically going round and, and

catching people's opinions. And, and I'm
sure Eric will get that edited up 'cause I

don't wanna do it, but I'm sure [laughs]
he'll do something with that where we take

all those opinions from people. We'll
talk about, you know, the highlights, the,

the, you know, the reasons that you
attend a conference, et cetera, et cetera,

and put them together into some,

some content for Laravel News around the
place. So, if you see Jake and I wandering

-around with microphones at Laracon A-
-Yes, yes

... uh, La- Laracon in Denver, then, uh,
you will know why. Um, and yeah, we'll

probably do some similar... Like, I just
ran out of time to do it at Laracon AU

last year, but I'd be keen to

do that kind of thing as well. 'Cause it's
nice to have the, the testimonials and

things like that up on the website, you
know, for people that are on the fence or

are trying to sell it to their employers
and things like that. Why, why would I go

to this thing?

Um, some, you know, some places are more
difficult than others to, to sell it into,

so,

um, yeah. We definitely, definitely wanna
see what we can do with, with that kind of

-stuff as well. 'Cause-
-We're excited for that

... it needs to be more than just m- my
face on videos, I think. [laughs]

[laughs] Right. Yeah. They said that
they're gonna have, like, a green room at,

-um, Laracon this year sort of reserved-
-Mm-hmm

... for podcasting stuff, so I just think-

-Yeah.
-That's a great idea.

-Pretty cool.
-That was really cool. So should be fun

-times.
-Yeah. Looking forward to it. It's, um,

it's coming up quick now. What are we?
Tenth of, tenth of June, ninth of June. So

we're only, you know, what? Six or so
weeks? Five, six weeks away from-

-Yeah
-... me jumping on a plane for-

-Yeah
-... 72 hours of travel for a 48 hour

-[laughs] stopover. [laughs]
-Mm-hmm. And right now, right now-

I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be so tired.
[laughs]

Yeah, dude. You are going to be toast. You
better just start getting-

-I get there-
-... sleep. Banking sleep right now.

-Yes. Stop, stop banking it.
-For when... Yeah. Six weeks from now. Yep.

I am... Monday I leave at, like, 6:00 AM

here, fly to Sydney, then fly to Dallas to
Denver. Um, so I'll, I'll get to Dallas

at... I, I leave at, I leave Sydney at
10:00 and I get to Dallas at 10:30 on

Monday. On the same day, 'cause time zones
are lots of fun. And then I think I get

in at, like, 3:00 PM on, on Monday arvo
to, to Denver, and then, uh... So I'm

traveling with Aaron. So OG Aaron will be
there with me.

-Even though you saw him?
-And, uh, we'll be there for, uh...

Unfortunately, our return flight got
changed. We were supposed to leave at,

like, 5:00 PM or something like that on
Thursday.

-Mm-hmm.
-And the flight got-... brought forward to

11 AM. So instead of having a day in
Denver-

-Yeah
-... we're gonna have eight hours to kick

around LAX on the way back, so...
[inhales]

-No good. No good.
-That's a... That'll be, that'll be

interesting. But, uh, we might venture out
to... There's, I think, on the strip

outside of the airport, there's like Five
Guys, Chick-fil-A, and In-N-Out Burger. I

said, "Let's just do all three of them.
What's the worst that could happen?" You

-know?
-Nice. Absolutely. Yeah.

There's a 16-hour flight ahead of us and
three different-

-Totally
-... types of burger. [laughs]

[laughs]

Yeah, that'll be glorious. I, I, I wanna
hear about that when you get back. Maybe

-it's- maybe, like, uh,
-... on India from last year, right? Like,

-just that, uh....
-Ah, yeah.

We won't go into details. We won't go into
details on that, but, but yeah. Uh, yeah,

no, dude, I'm looking forward to it. It's
gonna be a great time, and, and, um,

Denver's a great place. Like, there's a
lot of fun stuff to do there, and so, um,

really excited for that too. I, I think
that they're actually... I heard that they

might be doing a golf outing previous to-

Yeah, some golfing on, on Monday, yeah.

-Something like that, so...
-And I'm going to my first golf lesson

-tomorrow.
-Oh. You, you can-

-True story
-... get into it.

We, we've, we've been... Well, so, uh, my
son and I have been golfing recently.

-Um...
-Mm-hmm.

Uh, and so I'm... It's been super
enjoyable, a lot of fun. And so we've both

-kinda caught the bug again, so-
-[laughs]

... there's a kid that we know who's a
really decent golfer, and he's, like,

offering lessons this summer. He, he went
to... He, you know, he's got a scholarship

at college to play, and so I'm like,
"Heck, I mean, what's the worst that could

-happen? I'm sure he'll help me-"
-Yeah.

"... do some stuff better." And so, yeah,
we're going to some lessons tomorrow,

which should be fun, but I don't know.
I'm, I might try and get in on that. The

only problem is, like, I have to, like,
ship my clubs there, you know, so...

-Yeah.
-May- they might have-

-I'm sure they'll have some
-... rentals, though. I think they actually

-have rentals.
-Yeah, they'll have rentals.

-Maybe I-
-Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... Yeah, maybe I'll
do that. We'll see.

I'm sure it'll be fine. Yeah, no, I think
I'll have to miss it just because s- it's

too hard. Like, this is the first time
that I have been, obviously since the kids

-were born. Uh, well-
-Yeah

... sorry, first time since New York in
2019. So Eli was, like, one year old then.

So it's, it's been a while, and I, I,
I'm... I've got the leave pass, but it's,

like, go and come back in as short a
period of time as you can. So, yeah-

-For sure
-... leave, leave Monday, back Saturday,

-because time zones again. So w- I missed-
-Mm-hmm

-... all of Friday, but, um-
-Yep.

Fortunately, fortunately, it is the week
after Liv starts school, so I won't miss

her first week, which is, which is good.
Um, she just had-

-No, that's-
-... her second-

-Yeah
-... second transition visit today, which

she was a bit,

um, bit upset about. Like, she didn't
wanna go, it was gonna be too boring, it

-was gonna be too long.
-[laughs]

And then she didn't wanna leave when Rhee
went to pick her up, and then she didn't

wanna go back to kindy. She's like, "Can
you pick me up at lunchtime?" We're like,

"No, no. You've..." You know, "We're
working, you've gotta

go, go and do that." So she's only got a
few weeks of, of, uh, kindy, kindergarten

left before she starts school, which is
exciting, and,

um,

yeah, it's a bit... When you stop and
think about it, it's like, wow, it's, um,

five, just almost five years of, of her
life have already just, like, blown by.

-Yeah, dude, that's wild.
-And it's, it's Eli's birthday today. He

turns seven, so

it's just... Time flies, really. I said to
him, walking him to school this morning,

like, "It, it feels like just yesterday we
were bringing you home from the hospital,

-and here you are-"
-Yeah.

-"... like, halfway through-"
-Yeah

-"... your second year of school, so."
-Yep. Big kids, man. Uh, if you... Do you

know who Ben Rector is?

-No. No, I don't think so.
-He's a, he's a, he's a musician.

-Okay.
-Um, [sighs] I picked up listening to Ben

Rector, I don't know, the first time I
heard any of his songs was probably, like,

15 or 16 years ago, I think. I just sorta
happened across it on MusicBed. David

-Hemphill used to work there.
-Oh, yeah.

-And so-
-Mm-hmm

... I was pulling a song for something,
and I came across one of these songs. I

was like, "Oh, this is really good. I
don't know who this is." Ben Rector? I've

never heard of him. I was like, "He's just
some indie artist or something out of

Nashville, I'm not sure."

And so

as time went on, I sort of listened to
some... A couple more of his things. But

-anyway, he's a dad now-
-Mm-hmm

... and his latest album is so... There's
so much about, like, parenthood in there,

and it's just a super good album. It's
the, one of the best ones he's, he's had,

I've, I think. And so, um, if you're
looking for-

-Check it out
-... something to get you to be reflective

on how quick time is passing for your
kids, definitely check out Ben Rector's

latest, latest album. It's super good.
Super, super good. But yeah, I was

listening to it in my, in my car with my
daughters on my way somewhere yesterday.

-Mm-hmm.
-And I, uh, I had to stop singing for a

minute 'cause I was like, "Ooh boy, this
is gonna get heavy. This is gonna get-"

-Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
-I was, like, thinking of my daughters

while I was in the car, that song. I was
like, "Ooh boy, all right. Uh, it's gotta

chill for a minute here." It's so good,
though. So good.

-It's, it's-
-But very emotional. As, like, a parent,

like, listening to some of these things,
it's like, okay, 'cause he's hitting, he

hits the nail on the head at a couple of
spots. Where he's-

-Yeah.
-I think one of his songs are called Golden

-Days. Like, these are the golden days.
-Mm-hmm.

Oh man, it's really good. So anyway, check
it out. Definitely.

It's, it's, it's definitely funny as a
parent the kinds of things that hit you,

-that you, like, don't expect-
-Yes. Yeah

... to hit you. Like, we, we went and when
Liv did her first transition visit last

week, we went

and we met with, like, the principal and
the vice principal, and they talked about

the school and all of this kind of stuff.
And we just said it's like a bit of a

refresher, 'cause we've been there for a
year already, but, um,

just talking about... 'Cause the, the
school that we're in used to be considered

a bit of, like, a, a poor school. Um, it
was, like, in a low socioeconomic area. It

didn't really get the funding. Um, they
were, like, considered average for

schools like them. You know, so, you know,
within their, their group, they're like,

"Uh, you know, you're as shit as the other
schools." So

they didn't do anything. There was no...
Like, they didn't get any extra funding or

any extra support or anything like that.
And when the current principal came in,

this was back in 2011, there was like 150
students in the school, and their focus

was all around compliance rather than
learning and, and all of this kind of

stuff. And over the last

14 years, to see the turnaround where it's
now like a, a 500-person or 500-student

school, where they effectively get

their pick of, you know, whichever
teachers they want, they go and poach

them. They're having to turn students away
now, because they're at capacity. They're

building new, new classrooms and new
buildings and things like that.And, um,

and- and all of it's changed

just because they're giving opportunities.
And I'm sitting there, and I'm, like,

welling up going, "Oh." You know, it's-

it's just... Y- y- like I said, you don't
know

-what's gonna set you off, but it's like-
-Yeah.

There are these complete strangers to your
children

that, you know, you trust that they're
going to- to set them up

for life, to teach them, you know, how to
read and write and do maths and- and all

of this kind of stuff. But to- to support
them as their own? Like, I sometimes-

-Yeah, yeah.
-Some days, it's hard enough, like,

supporting your own kids to the level
that-

-Yeah.
-... th- they- they need 'cause, you know,

being a parent is- is hard work. But then
to have these, like, complete strangers

treat your children a- as their own
children is just,

um, really, really heartening to see that
there are people out there in the world

that will go out of their way to- to- to
look after kids and to- t- to do the right

thing by them. So...

Yeah, it's like they adopt them for a year
almost because-

-Yeah
-... you know, in reality, they end up

spending more time with your kids than you
do.

-More time, yeah. Yeah.
-I mean, truly.

-Yeah.
-Like, more waking hours are spent with

-that teacher than are spent with you-
-Mm-hmm

-... as their parent.
-Mm-hmm.

And so, yeah, it's crucially important
that you have those good teachers and

-stuff, but it is.
-Yeah.

That's- it's incredible. Like, we're so
blessed to have people who have dedicated

their lives to helping kids and families,
right?

-Yeah.
-And help society really, right?

-Yeah.
-Um, and so yeah. That's really cool.

I don't know how people that homeschool
their kids can do it 'cause I- I- I

wouldn't know. And the- and the stuff that
they come home with, you know, the way

that they- they learn now and the way that
they're taught now is very different to

what it was when I was in school 30 years
ago.

-Okay. Yeah.
-And, you know, Eli coming home, and he's

telling me about phonics and digraphs and,
like, "Did you know Y is, like, the

sometimes vowel?" I'm like, "What are you
talking about?"

-[laughs]
-Like, it was funny. Him, he... A-

-actually-
-Yeah

... as a- as a former math teacher, you
may be able to... You may know this.

He came, and, like, they're learning, uh,
addition and subtraction, and they... H-

he always writes everything left to right.
And I'm like, I- I don't wanna get in his

way. I don't wanna confuse him, right?
However he's learning is- is what I wanna

try and support him to learn. 'Cause when
I did it, it was like, you know, addition,

-subtraction, top to bottom.
-Yeah.

-You get the right-
-Yeah, right to left. Yeah, yeah.

You work right to left, you carry the
numbers-

-Yeah, exactly
-... and all that kind of stuff. And

[laughs]

he says to me... Oh, he goes, "No, this is
how we do it now." There's, like, the-

the make- the make 10 strategy or
something where you, like, get the numbers

-and-
-Hmm, okay

... figure it out, how to get to 10. He
goes, "In the olden days, they used to

call it rainbow facts." And I looked at
Rhee, and I said, "What do you mean, the

olden days? Like, I don't know what
rainbow facts is. That was never anything

-I learnt. Like, this is-"
-No.

So- so now we're, like, two generations
removed from what is-

-Ah
-... current teaching. It's like-

-So we-
-Not- not- not, like, to-

... we're the... We're, like, the olden
olden days.

We're- we're like the great-great-parents
of the- this- whatever it was that we were

-taught [laughs] 'cause that's-
-Oh, that's hilarious.

And it's not- not- not generations as in,
like, my generation and my kids, but,

like, generations of learning. These
things seem to cycle every seven or eight

-years. So, like, they did this.
-Yeah.

And that's... When I was in school, it was
like, "This is the word, this is how you

say it," and you just memorize that, and
then you move onto the next thing.

-That's right, yeah.
-Whereas now, they give them the tools to,

like, break down the sounds and recognize
the patterns and all of this kind of

stuff, so that you can give Eli a word
that he's never seen before, and he can

-sound out, and he breaks it down-
-Break it out, yeah

... into the pieces, and he knows. Like,
we gave him his birthday card

this morning, and Rhee and I reach- each
wrote a message in there, and- and I- he

opens it, he goes, "Oh, that's a lot of
words." I said, "Di- did you wanna read it

yourself, or do you want me to help you
out?" He goes, "No, I can read it myself.

I can read it in my head." And just
watching him and watching his head go and,

like... And his little smile was when he
read something that tickled him-

-Oh, that's so funny.
-... and it was just like, wow, you know?

-He's a little human.
-He's- he's a little human that can, like-

-He's a little person.
-Yeah.

And then, like, every now and then, he,
like, loses his marbles and throws

something across the room and runs off
screaming, so it's like... H- he gets all

these... And it's funny 'cause they're
like... You know, before it was like, "Ah,

he's having a tantrum." Now it's like,
"He's having a moment of dysregulation."

-I'm like, "Okay, sure."
-[laughs]

-"Whatever. Whatever it is."
-Ah.

-Oh, that's true.
-Okay.

-Yeah, man.
-So he takes himself to his bedroom now and

-just calms himself down-
-There you go

... which is nice 'cause before, it used
to be just, like, flinging things across

-the family room.
-Progress.

-I- I- and I-
-We're making progress.

There was fear for our television on a
number of occasions.

-Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
-[laughs] Don't throw anything towards the

-TV, please. [laughs]
-Yep. Yep. Well, that's- that's great,

-dude.
-Mm-hmm.

And they- they just continue to get
bigger. That's the crazy thing.

-Uh-huh, yeah.
-You got to see- you got to see Graham

-before- before we started the show.
-Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

-He's- he's an adult, man. He's huge.
-He looks like you, but he's huge, yeah.

He's a blond Jake.

He is. Yeah, and, I don't know, he's- he's
got your face and so...

But he's got your face. He- but he's got-
he's got Laura's hair.

Yeah, yeah. He's a better looking Jake
Bennett, so...

-[laughs]
-I- he's- he's the kid I wanted to look

like when I was a kid. I always wanted
blonde hair. You know what I mean?

-Mm-hmm.
-To be athletic and, like, you know,

-whatever. He's- he's that person.
-[laughs]

So anyway, he's a cool kid.

Well, dude, I think I've got these other
topics queued up for next time. We had

-talked about-
-Yeah

... really trying to have a little bit
more continuity between the shows, so I'll

tell you folks what we're looking at for
next time. So, a couple items. Uh,

defensive programming

and anticipating breakages. Where am I
going to miss? So I was watching... And

because we're getting into g- golf, um, I
was watching this clip. Tiger Woods was in

the rough, and he's trying to hit onto
the green, right? And so he's looking down

the fairway, and he's like, "Okay,
the..." So he's like, "I know this is kind

of what I..." You know, "I know what club
I need to hit to get there."

But he's like, "Now I have to figure out
when I'm... where I'm gonna aim." And he's

like, "Because I'm hitting out of the
rough, I'm not gonna be precise in where

I'm gonna hit, so I have to pick where

it's going to be least harmful when I
miss. I have to pick my miss." Like, "If I

miss on the right side, uh, there's
bunkers over there. If I miss on the left

side, I've got a wide open green. There's
a little bit of rough over there, but it's

gonna be a much better miss on that
side." Right?

-Mm-hmm.
-So it's trying to anticipate, where in my

programming do I want to miss? Where are
the things where, like, if I'm going to

mess up, if somebody's going to use this-
abuse this thing, how do I wanna sort of,

like, direct it so that the- the exception
has the least damage to me-

-Mm-hmm
-... or to the- the business? So, um,

you're never gonna get perfect, and you're
never going to be able to anticipate all

of the things that are gonna happen in
your programming. It's just not.

-Yeah.
-And I'll share an example next time, where

it's like, that is so freaking bizarre.
How did you ever think that that was how

-the tool was supposed to be used?
-Mm-hmm.

But I didn't think about, where is the
miss?So what ended up happening is we

deleted a bunch of stuff that was actually
crucial, and ending up, we're gonna end

up having to have two people redo a month
worth of work, literally a month worth of

work. It's brutal. It's brutal, because I
did not think about

this- this sort of, like, contingency
plan. Anyway-

-Mm-hmm
-... we're gonna talk about that a little

bit next time. And then, also, um, when
you're not using a static site generator,

you're using Laravel,

where do you store values that you want to
chuck into something where you have a

bunch of pages that are the same,

but need small variance? So is it a YAML
file? Is it a database that then gets

pushed down into static pages? Do you just
put it into the view? Do you put it in

the controller? Do you put it in the
config? Where do you put it? Right?

Um, do you generate DTOs that all have
them and you just store it in your code?

Where do you put it? So those are some
things we'll talk about next time, and I

have, uh,

-some fun- fun ideas for that. So...
-Nice.

-I will also want-
-Cue them up for next time, friends.

Also a quick say it as well, I have just
embarked upon deleting the tenancy package

-from our application.
-Ooh, yes.

We have finally, we have finally moved all
of the other pieces so that we don't need

multiple tenants anymore. So it's now a
process of step one was just to remove

the- the package from Composer and then
work through the tests and see what's

breaking. So it's a, it's a slow-going
thing. Um, someone will probably tell me I

can use AI for it, which I, which I won't
do.

-There you go. Yeah.
-But Duly noted. Um, yeah it's, it's, it's

going all right.

Having a better grasp of, like, parallel
testing now and multiple database

connections and just, like,

making life easier for myself and also,
like, hopefully improving the speed of our

tests will be,

um, a good side effect of doing this. So,

yeah,

-to be continued-
-Rock on

-... in future episodes.
-To be continued. Well, folks, Episode 178.

Is that right, Michael? Did I get it
right?

Hmm, I don't know. I wrote it up here.
177, I think.

-177.
-Ooh, 177. Folks, this is Episode 177. Find

show notes for this episode at
northmeetsouth.audio/177. Uh, if you'd

like to hit us up on Twitter or on

X or on BlueSky, hit us up at Michael
Dyrynda, @jacobbennett, or at North South

Audio. And of course, if you liked the
show, we'd really appreciate it if you'd

rate us up in your pod catcher of choice.
Five stars would be incredible, amazing,

and awesome.

Thanks for tuning in, folks. We love
hearing from you, honestly. Um, I would

love to get any feedback on any of these
items. Wistia, if you thought Wistia was a

cool idea, you should definitely,

um, let us know. What are your opinions on
liquid glass and iPhones and the new- the

-new designs-
-Yeah

... that are coming out? And then, um,

tune in next time to hear about some of
those other cool things we'll talk about

in two weeks. We'll see you then, folks.
Bye-bye.

Bye. [upbeat music plays]